Everton ARE a bigger club than Aston Villa

I tweeted the other day that Everton are a bigger club than Aston Villa, a statement met with much hostility from a selection of fans from the Midlands outfit.

This is a discussion I have stumbled across on numerous occasions on different forums and while some Villa fans accept Everton are the bigger club, I remain shocked as to the number of Villains who just don’t see it. Especially when taken into consideration that the Aston Villa official website refers to them as the fifth most successful club in English football history. Everton are the fourth.

First of all it is important to establish what makes a big club. It is not the size of the stadium, or league position the season before. A big club can only be judged on the number of trophies in their cabinet.

Granted, Villa won the European Cup in 1982, a feat the Toffees have never managed. It is worth noting however that Nottingham Forest have won Europe’s elite competition on two occasions and even the most avid of Forest followers could not honestly claim that they are a bigger club than Everton.

The blue half of Merseyside did celebrate European glory in 1985 – Howard Kendall’s side beating Rapid Vienna in Rotterdam to claim the Cup Winners’ Cup, now known as the Europa League.

Of course winning the European Cup is a greater achievement, and had both clubs been locked on the same number of trophies then that would trump Everton’s triumph and Villa would have to be deemed a bigger club.

As often well publicised by Evertonians, the Goodison Park outfit missed out on the opportunity to claim the biggest prize in club football when all English clubs were banned from European competition from the 1985-86 to 1990-91 seasons.

The ban coincided with Everton winning the league the season before and therefore qualifying for the European Cup. Gary Lineker, who signed for the great Barcelona after a season on Merseyside, recently claimed that Everton were the best side he ever played for.

After making the claim through Twitter, Lineker was asked if Barca were not the greatest side he ever represented. He replied: “Sadly Barcelona were not the side they are today. EFC were very strong in mid 80’s. Best club side I played for.”

Of course being the best side in Europe (or certainly one of the best) and winning the European Cup are two completely different things. There are too many if’s and but’s surrounding the subject and the records show that Everton have never won it.

What they have won however is nine league titles, compared to Villa’s seven. Not a big difference but it is worth noting that six of those seven titles were won between 1889 and 1910. There is then a 71 year wait for the next league triumph in 1981. Compare that to Everton, whose nine titles are spread over six decades. Notably two in the 1930’s, two in the 1960’s and two in the 1980’s.

See below links to both club’s official site history page.

Everton - http://www.evertonfc.com/history/club-honours.html

Villa - http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/HistoryHonours

With 108 seasons complete, Everton are also the longest-serving club in the top flight by some distance.

The fact that Villa find themselves second on that list with 99 years spent in the country’s top division proves that they are a club with a rich history – just not quite as rich as Everton’s.

There is no doubting that both clubs boast some of the finest traditions and proudest histories in English football and the likes of Chelsea and Manchester City have a long way to go and many more billions to spend to emulate anywhere near the same sort of success.

As the saying at Goodison Park goes – if you know your history…

Gary Maiden

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Comments

[John]

Thanks for listing a series of club who have won the league cup. Even those teams listed have managed to win a competition Everton haven't (as well as all the big boys too). If the competition was so easy to win again we have to wonder why Everton have never managed to win one of the domestic major honours. I've heard lots of excuses but it's a black mark on your history to not have all the big 3 domestic honours in your bag.

Despite playing slightly fewer seasons in the top flight we've still managed to beat Everton more times and of course have more winners and runner ups in the top flight combined. In terms of the football league we've won more matches too.

The premier league era point was in reference to Everton winning more which was proven as incorrect in modern football. We can all move goalposts to suit arguments hence why we have to take the total history of clubs. I for example could say what have Everton won from 1996 onwards!

Again I am happy to correct you:

1999-2000 Villa managed the final - therefore better than the semi final.

As for Villa having had no semis or finals from that period you selected. Wrong again!
Try semi final of the FA Cup in the 09-10 season, semi final of the League Cup in 03-04 season and final in the 09-10 season. If we go with what you originally said which was this century we can add in another FA Cup final and League Cup semi final played in the first half of year 2000.

I make that more semi finals and finals than Everton this century!

I regard the league cup as slightly inferior to the FA Cup but both are major trophies. As for 33% - I'm afraid that is not crap - it is factual. 20 major trophies is 33% more than 15 major trophies!

I'm content that we've won more FA Cups than Everton and won't use my time checking your semi final figures as I don't recall them handing our a trophy to the semi finalists!

[Ramon]

Says it as well as I could,
http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/everton-are-a-bigger-clubs-than-villa-apparently-lol?xg_source=activity

Even Villa's own website says it.Everton are a bigger club.

Just drop your tiresome obsession with the Micky Mouse Cup.
"why Everton have never managed to win one of the domestic major honours"?
Because we usually put our reserve side out until fairly recently in that secondary competition.

" I regard the league cup as slightly inferior to the FA Cup "

Slightly? Do me a favour. As I am tired of pointing our, NO BIG CLUBS BOTHERED ENTERING A FULL SIDE UNTIL RECENTLY. That is why no-mark sides like ,
Luton Town, Middlesbrough,Oxford United,Queens Park Rangers,Sheffield Wednesday,Swindon Town, West Brom,Norwich,Leicester, who have won it 3 times, does that make them as big as Villa?, and , of course, your neighbours and equals, Birmingham City. Their fans also regard themselves as a much bigger club than Villa, claiming a bigger fan base and better ground.

Ask ANY fan of ANY club which is the bigger comp and which they'd rather win. And ask any TV company how many countries buy the rights to the FA Cup and how many take the League Cup.

You spotted a small mistake I made, I had forgotten that you made a semi in 2010, I should have remebered that you were humiliated by Chelsea but the records I used only went up to the previous year. I HAD put from season 2000-2001 but you ignored that in your haste to point out my mistake, and in doing so made a mistake of your own. I was also talking about MAJOR Finals, and the League Cup is most cerainly not a major trophy when all the big clubs ignore it. .
As I say, read the article in sportwitness. Even your own club and fans agree with me.

And why are you so coy about admitting your age? Mind you, I don't know whether I could believe you now, you could just write any age, at least I can say I have witnessed great Everton sides over several decades. You'd have to be at least 42 to have any real appreciation of just a single Championship and , what, 102 to have witnessed two. If that's the case, all respect for an old bugger like you still remembering it, never mind managing to use a PC....

Despte putting up with your obsessive rubbish about the Micky Mouse Cup I still have a deal of respect for Villa, some of my cousins are Villains, (my Mam was from Brum and I used to spend holidays there in the fifties and sixties) and we had, in the past, some good craic with them, and I regard Villa as a club very similar to my own, probably more so than any other club in the League.

Just a little, teeny,weensy bit smaller.

[John]

Great, so you posted a link to an article that this article basically just copied!

Villa's website confirms Villa have won 33% more major trophies than Everton and have also won the bigger trophy as well as managing to win at least 5 of every major domestic honour (Everton are still struggling to get their first win of the league cup).

As you've only won one major trophy for 2 decades I wouldn't have thought you would be picky!
The real issue might be the following - we turned you over in the final in 1977 and just in case you forgot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdS8n-nqcE4

Then you go on to list a number of clubs with far less major trophies - you could have listed Everton too! Wimbledon, Coventry, Ipswich and Blackpool have won the FA Cup going by your logic.

Good to see we agree the FA Cup is a bigger competition than the league cup - regardless we've won more of both!

This century (from 1st Jan 2000) as I have confirmed in the major trophies Villa have made semi finals and finals - looks like your point backfired there old boy!

I've read the article in sportwitness and then gave the other side of the argument. Amusing to see Everton fans have probably resorted to pretending they're Villa fans in order to make their club seem bigger. If they showed as much interest in attending games at Goodison you might have had a higher average attendance than us once in about the last 5 seasons!

We've won more major trophies overall and my age is not going to change that.

I also like Everton - anyone who can't beat us the last 12 times we've played them in the league is a team I have a soft spot for.

Did I mention we also have a bigger stadium, bigger sponsorship, better training facilities, higher biggest transfer spend and bigger fanbase...

[Ramon]

Yes, I remember you narrowly beating us at the third attempt. I was there. Were you?

Thought not.

Everton have:-

Played more games in the top flight.
Won more games in the top flight.
Scored more goals in the top flight.
We have also won more home games, scored more points and scored more goals at home than ANYONE in the League, including Utd and the RS.
We have never played in the third tier of English football. You have...

You have won one League Championship in over one hundred years.
You have won one FA Cup in ninety two years.

You, personally, have yet to witness Villa win a major domestic honour. You may have seen them win a second rate trophy in the League Cup. You admit yourself that it is second rate.
( We are record winners, 45 times, of the Liverpool Senior Cup. Something you've never done... see? I can point to second rate trophy victories too)

Goodison Park ,the world's first purpose-built football ground, has staged the World Cup Finals, including the only ground outside of Wembley to host a Semi Final, Home Internationals, FA Cup Final and Semi Finals, it has also had the higher attendance, 78,299, than Villa Park. Because of it's historical importance there are attempt to have the ground registered as a Listed Building.(ask yer Dad)

Evertons new training ground, at Finch Farm, is now regarded as one of the finest in Europe, indeed, the Brazilian FA, amongst others ,have travelled across the globe to view the site and have decided to use it as the blueprint for it's new training centre.

Having a "bigger transfer spend" is nothing to boast about. We have built a better squad for less money, and I seem to remember Villa considering an attempt to try to get David Moyes to replace the inept Alex McCleish but Moyes said it would be a "backward step in his career".

Despite haveng a population more than twice the size of Liverpool you can only attract a measly 500 fans to your games, and that's with only Birmingham and Albion as alternatives. God only knows how small your attendances would be if you had a major side within half a mile of Villa Park.

"Good to see we agree the FA Cup is a bigger competition than the league cup - regardless we've won more of both!" But there's no-one left alive to remember !! Unless you mean the Micky Mouse, second rate, no-one entered , let the reserves have a go League Cup. And you probably do, it's all you can cling to.

"This century (from 1st Jan 2000) as I have confirmed in the major trophies Villa have made semi finals and final" . You have drifted back into the last century there, season 1999-2000. THIS century's full seasons start at 2000-2001.

And I thought only the Geordies and the RS fans were deluded. Two major domestic trophes in 92 years!! LMDO as well as LMAO.!!!

[John]

To clarify:

Overall Aston Villa have won 5 more major trophies than Everton (33% more).
Aston Villa have won the biggest trophy (European Cup).
Aston Villa have won the more recent major trophy.
Aston Villa have won at least 5 of all major domestic honours (Everton haven't even won all the major domestic honours yet although they did come close until they were beaten by Villa in the final!)
Aston Villa have won the same number of major trophies as Everton since World War 2 but won more major trophies from and including 1975.
Aston Villa have also won twice as many major trophies than Everton in the modern era of premier league football, whilst amassing more points with Everton actually having a negative overall goal difference in modern football.!
Aston Villa have beaten Everton.more times overall, in the league and the league cup.
Aston Villa have not lost to Everton in the last 12 league meetings..
Overall Aston Villa have won more games in the football league than Everton.
Aston Villa have a better and bigger ground that attracted more fans to it last season.
Aston Villa has over double the number of facebook followers - not a surprise with their larger fanbase.
Aston Villa gets more revenue than Everton and is regarded as a more valuable brand.
Aston Villa has superior training faciltiies.
Aston Villa have won the double - Everton have not.

Everton still to win all 3 domestic major honours (well no major trophy at all after 1995 unlike us) and anything big in Europe!
Villa on the otherhand the first English team to win all 3 domestic major honours and of course have won big in Europe!

Result - Everton above Tranmere, below Liverpool and of course below the recently more successfull side (Villa) that has won 33% more major trophies.

[Ramon]

You're not very good at this, are you? I mean, trotting out the same innaccurate 33% rubbish several times in the hope that repetition will make it true? If you want to keep including the Mickey Mouse Cup then I'll do the same. We have won the Charity/Community Shield 9 times to your once. See?
So, we've both won 1 european trophy, we've 9 championships to your 7, We've 5 FA Cups to your 7,you've 5 Micky Mouse Cups to our none and we've 9 Charity/Community Shields to your one. 21 to you, 24 to us. I'm trying to be as childish as you. It's not easy. I bet your Mam will be glad when school starts again.
Now, are we counting entire history, just this century or the years that make you look good. See, you have mentioned the fact that you have won a "double". This surprised me at first, I remember Spurs doing it, and being lauded for the feat in 1961. When I checked I found that you have indeed won a double. In the nineteenth century. (I'll let that sink in.It's when you won eight of your collection of honours) Now, permit me to mention one or two other things that happened in the 19th century, just to get a better perspective on that era. The American Civil War. The Crimean War. The great famine in Ireland. Custer met his end at the Little Bighorn.The Boer War. (lot's of wars, aren't there) Napolean had a go 'cause he thought he was hard enough. Captain Cook, Charles Darwin both found fame. Tha Abolition Of Slavery!! F*** me! Queen Victoria. And Aston Villa won 5 of their 7 Championships. They won the 8th as the storm clouds of war gathered over Europe. Er...that's the First World War, not the Falklands. The storm clouds etc were gathering for that shortly before we won our latest Championships.

"Aston Villa has superior training faciltiies". You know, I read that and laughed until a little bit of wee ran down my leg. Our new state of the art training facility at Finch Farm is as good as any in the world, and is , as I have tried to point out, being used as a blueprint for the likes of Brazil football team.

Everton have won 1732 games in top flight football and Villa 1610. Fact. Please don't include the seasons when you were Champions. Of the third division. I forgot that you only avoided relegation by 2 points last season....

I'm fed up with pointing out your innacurate drivel. I'm going to pour myself a large glass of red and sit in the sun. You get your homework done or it'll be early to bed....

[John]

The reality is Aston Villa football club have won 20 major honours and Everton have won 15 major honours. As stated previously Aston Villa football club have won 33% more major trophies than Everton.

As for the Charity Shield unfortunately this is widely regarded as a minor charity friendly and it would be like me adding in lower league championships, the Intertoto Cup, European Super Cup and Football League War Cup!

So still 5 more major trophies for Villa. Interesting to see Tottenham and Chelsea have won more major trophies than Everton too which was a surprise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_England_by_major_honours_won

So we've both won one European trophy (well Villa have won 3 going by your new logic!) but in the real world Villa have won the biggest European trophy and Everton haven't.

The FA Cup and League Cup are also both in Villa's favour as previously proven.

Thanks for confirming Villa have done the double and Everton haven't managed this amazing thing. Thanks for the history lesson as well - I guess it won't change that we've won more major trophies overall, the same number of major trophies from WW2 and more than Everton since the year the Vietnam War ended! (Not to mention more in the modern years of premier league football too!)

We'll have to agree to disagree on the training facilities as it is a matter of opinion rather than something factual - like Everton haven't won all of the major domestic honours (for example)

Villa have won more games in the football league as I stated.

[Ramon]

Everton have won 1732 games in top flight football and Villa 1610. Fact.

You have spent much more time than we have trawling throught the second and third division. I said more TOP FLIGHT games.

Deluded

[Ramon]

By the way, give me the so-called evidence that Villa have won more top flight games than Everton. And not just when you were languishing in the lower leagues, you have more "history" than we have in that respect.

[John]

Everton have lost more games in top flight football (1463 games lost for Everton and only 1375 for Villa).

Although as I said across the football league Villa have won more games, we've also beaten Everton more times than they have beaten Villa in the top flight. I should call it our football league seeing as we set it up!

Just read an interesting article about the all time big four - no surprise Everton didn't make it!

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2012/05/31/brendan-rodgers-inherits-the-most-trophy-laden-club-in-english-football-history310502/

[Ramon]

This is the concise record of the top ten in the top flight. Don't embarrass yourself by including your soiree in the third division. I don't know anything about that, we've never been there. As you can see, we have won more games than you, scored more goals, won more points. This is up to May 2011 so, after your narrow escape from relegation last year the figures are even better for us. Yes we've losy more games, but we've won more games. Which is better, don't you agree..

Yrs Pl W D L F A Pts
1. Liverpool 96 3830 1773 953 1104 6283 - 4669 4499
2. Everton 108 4214 1717 1046 1451 6594 - 5883 4480
3. Arsenal 94 3830 1715 994 1121 6291 - 4846 4424
4. Manchester United 86 3474 1634 862 978 5975 - 4502 4130
5. Aston Villa 100 3880 1603 916 1361 6427 - 5761 4122
6. Manchester City 82 3316 1244 823 1249 4995 - 4949 3311
7. Newcastle United 80 3198 1249 784 1165 4895 - 4608 3282
8. Tottenham Hotspur 76 3090 1238 758 1094 4818 - 4420 3234
9. Chelsea 76 3094 1211 808 1075 4656 - 4449 3230
10. Sunderland 80 3112 1208 713 1191 4908 - 4777 3129

Now, Ishall have to correct you on something else, Villa played NO PART in the formation of the Premier League. This is an article from the time,
"A lot of talk about dismantling the old league system in favour of a 'super league' had been bandied about in the 1980s. Step forward the 'Big Five' (Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool, Manchester United and Tottenham Hotspur); these clubs claimed that they earned and spent the most and wanted to form an elite divison so they could do more of the same. The main obstacle, as they saw it, was their affiliation to the Football League, which had organised league football for over a century.
It was a ruling in the High Court that really turned things in favour of the 'Big Five'. A judgement in 1991, handed down by Justice Rose, cleared the way for a split between the top divison and the three tiers below it."
As you can see, Villa wern't involved but were invited to join when the league took off.

You don't have much to say about the paucity of honours...I mean the major honours, not the Micky Mouse thing you're obsessed with...that Villa have failed to win regularly for years. One league championship in, what, 102 years?
So, if you like, you can add your Football League War Cup to your other bits, I'll add ours up and we'll see who wins. It's a shame that you demean the Charity/Community Shield, it has been played for for over a hundred years.About twice as long as your Mouse Cup. About You've won it once. And I don't think you've even won the Micky Mouse thing since it was decided that winning it would allow entry into the Europa League.

ps. Well done!. You've managed a post without prattling on about the inaccurate 33%!

[John]

Everton don't get any extra major trophies for winning more games in the top flight - so you're still stuck on just the 15.
We've still won more games in the football league and still have the superior head to head overall, in the top flight and in the league cup.

I see you got your wires crossed about the Football League which Villa set up. The words "Football League" were the clue not "Premier League".

Although talking of the premier league era we have the higher attendances, have beaten you more times, have finished higher, have got more points, won more major trophies, won the more recent major trophy and finished above you more times! Cheers for reminding me of that!

20 major trophies vs 15 major trophies is 33% more. I know the truth isn't easy for you take but that is the widely accepted numbers. At least you have your friendlies to try and convince yourself you're a big club. LMAO! Shame in the real world they're not regarded as major trophies!

You haven't even won all the major domestic honours yet - most of us big boys haven't had such problems.

Did I mention the European Cup (a bigger trophy than Everton have ever won)...

[Ramon]

Listen, Dickhead, winning games in the third division is something to keep quiet about.Everton have won the most games in the Big Clubs league. You can carry on perpetuating your pathetic drivel about winning matches in the lower leagues all you like but it's the top flight that's important.
I'll write this slowly because you seem a bit...slow....The Micky Mouse Cup is just that. MICKY MOUSE CUP. No big club entered a full team for years. Small clubs like Villa, who managed to beat the mighty Rotherham (over two games) had nothing else to win so entered their full 3rd division side. The Charity Shield is played for by the clubs who have won the two MAJOR domestic trophies. You've won the league once in 102 years. ONE HUNDRED AND TWO YEARS!! And the FA Cup once in 92 years! Pathetic.You yourself have NEVER seen Villa win any major trophy! (By your reckoning we have won 83 trophies if you include your Football League War Cup. )
You are also banging on about it being YOUR league. A league that was formed in 1888, with Everton as one of the founder members, ten years after Everton were formed. Hardly makes it "your league" does it? But if it does, then tell you what, piss off back to your Football League. It's where you feel at home. We'll carry on in OUR Premier League. And you don't get any trophies for "winning more games in the football league" ( especially the 3rd div) nor do you for having "the superior head to head overall," you appear to have forgotten when we battered you in the FA Cup in 2009.

You are also obsessed with your statement that you have higher attendances. Again, you have more than twice as many people to garner your support from but only manage a measly 500. If they are all like you, thick as mince, then it's no wonder not that big a percentage of Birmingham people want to go to Villa Park.
Ha! Considering that Villa have one of the cheapest season tickets in our Premier League you STILL can't boast of many more fans. Have a look at the link below to see just how pathetic your claims are. Value for money? You're having a laff.
Try and answer this one question. Have you seen Villa win anything? Don't give me all the 33% crap, just answer that question. If you can't then don't bother replying.

Everton, 23 domestic trophies. Villa 19 domestic trophies. (using your criteria)

http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/12-13/news/22046.html

And you have only won 3 games more than Everton since the start of the matches between us. The way you go on you'd think we'd never beaten you.See link below.

http://www.footymad.net/head_to_head/everton/vs/aston_villa/index.shtml

[John]

Aston Villa have beaten Everton more times in the head to head matches in the big club league and won more games at Goodison Park than Everton have managed at Villa Park in the process. We dominate the most played game in top flight football too. We also have the superior head to head record overall (note to Ramon that means across all games vs Everton!)

Everton have managed to win just 2 of the 3 major domestic competitions and just 1 of the 3 major European competitions. Another way to look at it is Everton have failed to win half of the major trophies available even once!

Amusing how you try and focus on us beating Rotherham rather than beating Arsenal, Man U and Tottenham in another season when we won it. I guess you can't really focus on the times Everton have won the league cup because it has never happened. You did get close though but lost in the final in 1977 to a club that overall won 33% more major honours.

Aston Villa founded the league - I suggest you read this article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/8377219.stm

Something as important as that (and the knock on effect it had on world league football) is far more significant than anything Everton have ever achieved (a bit like winning the European Cup is!)

Yes, we have a larger catchment, a larger stadium, a larger fan base, larger attendances - just comes with being a bigger club. Even when we had our worse season in years and you (as rarely happens) finished above Liverpool we were still more popular. Even with the cheap season tickets you mentioned we get a lot more revenue than you!

Yes, I have seen Villa win things inclusive of a competition far bigger than Everton have managed in Europe - talking of Europe all you've won is that mickey mouse cup winners cup or whatever it was called.

Domestically we've won 36% more major trophies - although I'm sure you could tell me about the pre-season friendlies you've won - shame they're not major trophies though!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everton_F.C.

"The club's most recent major trophy was the 1995 FA Cup"

Not the charity shield then!

ROFL!

[Ramon]

Micky Mouse Cup, Micky Mouse Fan. 7 posts you've trotted out the 33% crap.
Everton 23 domestic trophies. Villa 19 domestic trophies. End of.

ps. It's NOT your league. The Premier was started by Everton, Spurs, Utd, Arsenal and the RS.Not Villa. Go back and play in YOUR league, after all, you were only two points off joining you pals Forest (much bigger club than you by your reckoning) and your local rivals and equals City.
It's no wonder you don't want to include the Charity/Community Shield. Because you've only won the major domestic honour that entitles you to compete in it twice in ONE HUNDRED AND TWO YEARS you've never managed to win it. If you had won it 9 times you would be claiming that as well. Of all the Villa fans I've met, and believe it or not, it's quite a few, you are the saddest and most deluded of them all. The rest have a grasp of reality and accept that Everton and Villa are just about the same, as I do, incidentally, and have that mutual respect for a similar club with a good history (although yours is way, way further back than ours) and initially I thought this might be a bit of banter. But it's like arguing with a retard. You live so far in the past it's unbelievable. And you have the nerve to say ""The club's most recent major trophy was the 1995 FA Cup"". You last won it in 1957!!!! When you weren't even born!! What a dickhead.

[John]

20 major trophies vs 15 major trophies - as confirmed previously that is 33% more. Even the Everton wiki page doesn't refer to your charity friendlies as major trophies! (just goes to show how deluded you are when your own team is in disagreement with you!)

So in terms of major trophies, we've won more and won bigger.

Any organised football league in the world points back to Villa as the original founders. Every league game you play is due to us! Let's also just remind ourselves that in the premier league era we have beaten you more often, won more points, finished in the higher position, finished above you more often, won more major trophies and won the more recent major trophy!

Forest have won less major trophies than Everton - they're still 6 behind you with just the 9 - although they've managed to win all the 3 major domestic honours which is something that Everton haven't managed yet.

Saying that as pointed out earlier Everton have failed to win 3 out of the 6 major trophies on offer - 50% failure!

I also like the way I "live in the past" but you fail to disprove the points that in major trophies (not friendlies!) we've won the same number since WW2, Villa have won more since 1975 and won more in modern football and the more recent major trophy!

http://www.krysstal.com/trophies.html

NB: Also won 5 more major trophies overall too (maybe try and pass Chelsea and Spurs first before you take on us big boys)

[Ramon]

HA HA HA...33% EIGHT TIMES! WHAT A DELUDED TOSSER. NARROWLY AVOIDED RELEGATION BACK INTO "YOUR" LEAGUE AND YOU CALL YOURSELF ONE OF "THE BIG BOYS"! WHAT A CLOWN!

YES, YOU'RE 33% MORE DELUDED THAN US..

DO ONE, WINDOW LICKER.

HA HA HA HA HA

(Chelasea, won norhing until a Russian gangster bought it for them, Spurs, not won the league for 50 years. Almost as bad as you and your Comical Cup) Go on, back to bed, yer Nannies here to change yer nappy...

[John]

Says the guy who is at odds with Everton's own wiki page which doesn't even class your friendlies as major trophies!
Classical delusion!

Lists of major trophy winners have been provided numerous time. As confirmed:

Aston Villa 20 major trophies (inclusive of the biggest trophy a team can win) and Everton 15 major trophies (not won the biggest trophy a team can win) - therefore 33% more major trophies won by Villa!

Slag off Tottenham and Chelsea as much as you like they've still won more major trophies than Everton too!

Glad we've got that one settled - I'm sure you can try and pit your inferior major trophy haul against Tranmere - you might stand a chance of winning that one!

[Ramon]

We've settled nothing Delude. "OUR" own Wicke page, as you put it, is nothing to do with Everton. Wickpedia is a notoriously innacurate webpage which people can add to if they like. (There was a slanderous section slagging Gerrard off on one occasion, put there by somone with a grudge, which had to be removed) Don't believe all you read on that place.
I see you are still obssessed with the 33% crap. Are you ADHD or something?
Spurs, 2 leagues, 8 FA Cups, nothing since 1991. Chelsea, 4 Leagues, 7 FA Cups. Can't see where I've "slagged " them off, enlighten me on that will you?
Incidentally, the Lancashire Senior Cup has been played for since 1879 against Utd, City the RS, Blackburn, Bolton, Preston, Burnley,Blackpool,Bury ,Rochdale etc, and was at one time a Trophy worth winning. (it predates the Micky Mouse Cup by 60odd years and was played for by teams fielding there full sides, not reserve sides) So I suppose I can add that, too, seeing as you're intent on including your silly little tin pot.

Let's get things into perspective, I have pointed out the historical happenings in the century when you won most of your trophies, do you realise that the Wanderers are only two wins behind your cup haul, but Old Etonians have some catching up to do. Do you think you're a "bigger club" than City? Think about that one before you answer it....

ps. Are you looking forward to the big kick off in OUR Premier League this weekend?

[Ramon]

"their" full teams, not "there" and libelous, not slanderous, before you correct me.

[John]

Seeing as you don't want to believe the Everton Wikipedia page perhaps you'll listen to the official Everton site.

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/36684/the-lowdown-man-utd-v-everton.html

"This is his second major semi-final as Everton's manager - following the Chelsea tie in the Carling Cup last season"

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/boss-eyes-silverware.html

In reference to the league cup: "it is the one major domestic trophy the Club has never secured"

http://www.evertonfc.com/history/10158/dave-watson.html

"Watson proudly ascended the Wembley steps to raise aloft the last major trophy collected by an Everton captain - the FA Cup "

There we have it - proof from the Everton official site the club regard the league cup as a major trophy and the charity shield as not one!

Therefore as previously confirmed (and rubber stamped by Everton FC) 20 major trophies is 33% higher than 15 major trophies.

Spurs and Chelsea have won more major trophies than Everton as previously advised although I will admit you're mix of trophies compared to Spurs in particular is more favourable.

Lancashire Senior Cups! Oh my not even a national competition - I feel really inferior with my European Cup now!

Thanks for alerting me to the fact that Everton have only won the same number of FA Cups as the Wanderers!

Yes, in terms of total history, we are a bigger club than City!

Yes, I am looking forward to the league format - seeing as we set up World league football it's always special to see other smaller clubs like Everton playing with us - particularly when we have a superior head to head record.

[Ramon]

Head to head. Over all the 200 odd games you've come out on top 3 times more than us. Hardly worth shouting about, is it? Still, it's the only argument you've got. Oh, and mentioning your 33% ADHD stuff again for the 10 th time. Plank.

Here are the statistics that matter.
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/all-time-table/full

We've won more games, scored more points, played more seasons, scored more goals, home and away.
You have won the league once in 102 years and the FA Cup once in 92 years. Most of your trophy haul was in a century when slavery was abolished, the Crimea, Boer and Napoleonic Wars took place. Or vefore WW1.
You even think that your lack of any real success in the last two centuries and winning games against Rotherham, and enjoying success at a time when there is NO-ONE LEFT ALIVE to remember it makes you a bigger team than Manchester City, the current League Champions. If you win the Premier League before they win it again I shall give you my house, cars, rental properties, I shall let you sleep with my missus providing your old enough, (gets me off the hook) and you can have my cat put down.
Incidentally, your Micky Mouse Trophy has been renamed again, it's now the Capital One Cup which makes it EIGHT times it's had to change it's name, because no-one really wants to be associated with a second rate competition. Let's see how many first teamers Utd, City, Arsenal, Everton, the RS, Chelsea, Spurs, in fact all the Big Clubs who started the Premier League plus Chelsea, have in their starting line up in their first game in the Crapitol One Cup.

Now, are you looking forward to your season in OUR Premier League?
Joking apart, do you see yourselves having a better one than last year? How have you fared in the transfer market, I see you've brought a couple in from the Dutch league. And Lambert can't be any worse than Mcleish. Can he?

[John]

In terms of the head to head record we have won more times - that is what matters. Aston Villa have beaten Everton more times than Everton have beaten Aston Villa.

Nothing wrong with the 33% stuff - just stating the facts that were rubber stamped by Everton FC.

As for your link it has you above Man United which just highlights how worthless it is when you haven't actually won more than 15 major trophies - they've won more league titles than you've won major trophies for example! (saying that we've still won more matches and scored more goals in the football league than Everton).

We've won more league cups, FA Cups and the bigger trophy in Europe!

Interestingly, in the league it's about 67 years vs 41 years in Villa's favour when Villa have more top flight league titles in the trophy cabinet than Everton.

In the FA Cup it's about 125 years vs 0 years in Villa's favour when Villa have more FA Cups in the trophy cabinet than Everton.

In the League Cup it's about 51 years vs 0 years in Villa's favour when Villa have more League Cups in the trophy cabinet than Everton.

Our success was so long ago that we've won more major trophies than Everton from 1975 and in modern football (the premier league era). I do like that one!

The top flight has been sponsored by Canon, Today, Carling, Barclaycard and Barclays in the last 30 years - presumably it's second rate as well! (using your logic)

I am looking forward to the league format we set up for the World. I've enjoyed the premier league era as we have beaten you more often, won more points, finished in the higher position, finished above you more often, won more major trophies and won the more recent major trophy!

Yes, I see us doing better than last season and I am pleased with the transfer activity (in and out) by Lambert so far. How about you - feeling confident for Everton?

[Ramon]

"we've still won more matches and scored more goals in the football league than Everton)."

Can you provide the article or page where this information is?

[John]

On the site you sent a link to earlier.